Podcast: First 24 Hours with Guest, Midwife Marie Louise

First 24 Hours with Guest, Midwife Marie Louise

Season 1, Episode 14

And in a single moment, your entire life changes. Your baby who has spent the last 9 months curled up inside, is earthside. WHAT NOW?

In this episode I'm join by Midwife Marie Louise and we discuss what to expect in those first 24 hours after birth. Both physically and emotionally, for both mum and baby.

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TRANSCRIPT

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I know right now you have no idea what to expect from birth, what it's going to feel like, how it's going to pan out.

And so what you thought was going to be this glowing experience of pregnancy has turned you into a bunch of nerves.

Well, you were in the right place because I am here to hold your hand as you prepare for the birth of your baby through the birth-ed online course, the course that gives you the information you thought you were going to get from your antenatal appointments and didn't.

The birth-ed course opens your eyes to everything you need to navigate your pregnancy and birth choices so you can feel confident, informed, and ready to take back control.

Available worldwide for just £40 or $50, sign up now via the link in the show notes.

Welcome to the birth-ed podcast, where we open up conversations about all aspects of pregnancy, birth, and parenthood, so you feel fully informed, confident, and positive about what this journey might entail.

I'm Megan Rossiter, founder of Birth-ed, and your host here at the Birth-ed podcast.

Birth-ed offers comprehensive, positively presented antenatal and hypnobirthing classes, both in person and online.

So if you like what you hear, be sure to come check us out on our website or social media.

Don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes.

Believe me when I say we will leave no stone unturned when it comes to preparing you for your pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period.

Before we kick off today, I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about the courses offered by birth-ed, because we are actually a little bit more than just a pregnancy, birth and parenthood podcast.

We offer in-person courses in the UK and an online course which is accessible worldwide.

The birth-ed course is totally unique in that it offers both a comprehensive antinatal preparation, so covering everything, all your birth choices, possible interventions, decision-making tools, your pain relief options, your birthplace choices, optimal positioning, kind of everything that you might want to know about having a baby.

But also included in that is a full hypnobirthing course, so giving you practical tools and techniques that you can use in labour to help you feel calm, to help you feel comfortable.

And ultimately, the whole course is there to get you to a place where you feel confident and excited about giving birth.

Thousands of parents have accessed the birth-ed courses now, and time and time again, they're getting in touch to let me know that they had the positive birth experience that they set out for, in whichever way ended up being the right way for them and their babies on the day.

So if you're enjoying the podcast content, but you're thinking you might want a few more kind of practical ways to prepare for birth, then you can visit our website or drop me an email for more information.

Okay, so back to today's podcast.

Hi, everybody.

Welcome back to the next episode of The birth-ed podcast.

Today, I am delighted to be joined by Marie Louise, who is an NHS midwife, author of the new book, The Modern Midwife's Guide to Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond, and runs the Instagram account, The Modern Midwife.

Marie is also expecting her first baby.

So, Marie, thank you so much for joining us.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me.

It's a pleasure to be on.

So, in this episode, we thought we would kind of chat about the first 24 hours of life with your baby, kind of earth side, from basically the instant that they've been born, and throughout that kind of first day of being potentially a parent for the very first time, and potentially a parent of your subsequent or kind of next child.

So, let's kind of kick off, I suppose, at this stage, women could potentially be anywhere.

They could be, well, probably not anywhere, but they could be at home, they could be on a birth center, they could be on a baby ward.

So, from that kind of moment that baby emerges, what is, there's actually a bit in your book that I love, that I always talk to clients about as well, is what has changed for this baby?

Like, what in their existence is different now?

Yeah, so I talk about this quite a lot and how birth must be quite a strange experience for a newborn baby and kind of run through what it's like to be born.

And so, physiologically, a lot happens at the birth.

So, the fetal circulatory system works the opposite to how ours works.

So, the veins carry oxygenated blood and the arteries carry deoxygenated blood.

So, when the baby's born, that whole circulatory system is flipped around to how it will be for the rest of their life.

And they are also then born into this environment where they need to breathe for themselves.

And their body's doing these things that it's never done before.

And although they might not be really conscious of exactly what is happening or why that is happening.

So, I don't think that it is necessary.

Some people say that they think birth is very traumatic and can be really stressful for newborns.

But I don't necessarily think that that's the case.

But I think it must be a really strange experience because suddenly their lungs are being filled with air.

They're having to do all of these different things internally that we often forget about, even as practitioners and sometimes new parents aren't told about all of these physiological changes that are happening.

I mean, if you think about that circulatory system on its own, that's a massive internal change for a baby to go through.

So, and not to mention the fact that it's 15 degrees cooler, it's light, it's loud, there's different smells.

You know, the whole world, as they know it, has been completely changed.

And it's almost like being dropped on an alien island.

I don't know about you, but I'd be a bit hysterical if suddenly someone took me somewhere that was 15 degrees cooler, the lighting was completely different, the sounds were different, there was no more water around me, and I'm used to being around water, or quite the opposite.

Suddenly someone dropped me and was like, okay, so now you're gonna stay in water, you're just adapting to this.

Exactly, exactly that.

So, you know, it's a very strange experience for them.

And we do often, I think, forget that, and we do sometimes forget about this birth pause that I talk about in my book as well.

And it's for both mom and baby, not just for baby, but your whole body has gone, especially if you have had a vaginal birth.

And I'll talk about cesarean section as well, because your body's still, of course, going through a massive change, and you're having surgery.

But when you've gone from this state of mind of power, pushing, and real focus, and real primal, especially if you are using hypnobirthing, which I really, highly recommend, you go from that internal state, a mental state, and also physiological state, because the way in which your hormones are operating are quite primal, and you're really reliant on them for your birth.

And then you go from that to suddenly, you've got to switch on your neocortex, which is that very modern part of the brain, and pick up your baby, and meet your baby, and are expected to think straight, so to speak, when you've just been in this very primal state.

So it's really, again, mums need to have that time to just adapt to everything that's happened, and all of those changes that have also happened to them physiologically, but their baby's also been a part of them, and now they're separate, which that's a huge change as well for both mum and baby.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's exactly what you're saying about mums, that's the one thing that I think people always find kind of totally surprising, is how they can be in labour, particularly that second stage, or the kind of pushing phase of labour, when their baby is being born, and you're in another world in your mind when that is happening.

And it's almost instant that the baby comes out and you are alert and awake, and you can engage in conversation if you really wanted to.

Like, the way that your brain switches so, so quickly, it's quite astonishing, really.

And I suppose the kind of theory behind that is being able to, if you were in the wild, being able to protect your infant from kind of incoming danger, essentially, and to be able to be alert and be protective.

Yeah, yes, exactly.

That's it.

But yeah, it does happen very quickly and absolutely.

But I think we need to really appreciate that as well and be like, wow, what a massive transformation that is, that you've gone from this, you know, real internal primal state to then, you know, you're switched on, you're in your protective mode.

And I always also say, if you ever look to animals, if you look to a new mum that does, that's just had puppies or an ape or chimpanzee, that mother will be at her strongest.

So you'll see that real fierceness inside her when she's protecting her young and her babies.

And it's the same with a new mum as well.

You know, like you say, you're switched on quickly.

And that is an evolutionary defense mechanism to make sure that mum can protect her baby.

So we also, you know, as birth partners, as clinical practitioners, as doulas, whoever's with you at your birth also needs to appreciate and protect that moment that your baby is born and protect that pause and allow you to have that switch over and allow you to have that moment of protection and acknowledging what's just happened as well, rather than rushing things and, you know, jumping in to rub the baby very quickly and check things, you know.

We all have one minute, especially if the cord is pulsating, that oxygen-rich blood, which unless there's been a real true obstetric emergency, the cord shouldn't be cut at the birth anyway.

So we all have a minute to just allow things to be and just have that moment of appreciation.

And I love that, what you say about that pause, that moment, because I think sometimes when we are thinking about putting together birth preferences or reading about kind of what we want for the birth, and we're going to talk about this a little bit, but things like kind of, we say the phrase immediate skin to skin, and I think there's this thing where we go, oh my God, the baby has to come out, and within one second, it has to be on my chest.

I remember this happening to me when my baby was born.

It was scooped up and it was put on my chest, and I couldn't see him.

And I was going, I just wanted to see his face, and I just looked at him and take him in and see who he was.

And like obvious, we're going to talk through the benefits of things like skin to skin, but it doesn't, yeah, exactly as you say, nothing has to be kind of sped up or rushed, or nobody has to be kind of pushed from one thing to the next.

And actually, if the baby comes out and it sits between your legs for a minute, or it sits on your lap, or you bring them up at the right pace for you, then that's what instinct is in that immediate postnatal period.

It's following a mother's own timing, a mother's own cues about how to respond to that baby, rather than just kind of scooping them and plonking them and going, right, there you go.

And you just kind of got this slippery thing, and you're like, oh, I don't really know what I'm doing.

But given a moment to let that settle, you do know, everybody knows, you would instinctively know what to do with your baby.

And eventually, you would pick them up, and you would bring them kind of close test.

But you're exactly right, saying that that doesn't have to be kind of totally instinctive.

And I had one, I've been a midwife for quite a while now.

And as part of our training, we're kind of, we were anyway, 10 years ago when I started, to pass the baby straight to mum.

And now I've learned, and now we're learning more and more, and understanding more and more about physiological birth.

And we're kind of going back to our heritage in midwifery at this modern time, which I'm super proud of, and really involved in, of course.

And we're starting to stand back and all kind of realize this, how precious that time is.

And I've mentioned in my book as well about this one particular instance where I'll never forget that this, the mother before had said, this was her second baby, and I hadn't met her in her previous pregnancy.

And she said, with the first baby, her arms felt all weird and wobbly, and she was just past this baby, and all of a sudden it was on her chest, and she couldn't see the baby's face properly, and it was all a little bit much for her.

And having the baby so close up, like on her chest, she almost felt claustrophobic and wanted to get the baby off her.

And on the second birth, she had a beautiful water birth.

And I just helped gently guide the baby up, the baby's head to the top of the surface.

And we all just, me, the baby's father and the woman, we all just sat there for a moment, and we watched the baby take his first breath.

And it was unbelievable.

Like, it was such a magical moment.

And I wouldn't even touched her baby.

It was only simply because he was under the water, and I needed to bring him up to the surface.

But we all just sat around, and I had my hand just underneath his head, and we watched this baby just, you know, of course, the baby's always been alive, but just come alive this side of the earth.

And afterwards, she said to me, that was the most magical experience.

And now I understand why I felt like I did before.

And for months, she said, I felt really guilty that I wanted to get my baby off me.

But it was just like a gut reaction of, oh, like, this doesn't feel right.

I'm not ready for this.

And that, again, it's an instinctive thing.

The mother will bring the baby to her when she feels ready to.

And that's what we all need to appreciate as well, because we're talking 30 seconds before she picked the baby up.

10 minutes swimming a pool.

And how amazing that, you know, we all got that opportunity.

I was really privileged to be able to be part of that.

But we all got the opportunity to sit and just watch this baby really calmly, took his first breath, opened his eyes, and he looked around and he looked straight at her.

And it was just amazing.

Oh, yeah, that's magic.

And that's amazing for that first.

I've got so many questions to ask at this point, but I don't even know where to start.

But let's go with the kind of, so we talk about the golden hour, which is the first hour after birth.

And some of the things we've kind of already mentioned, but let's talk about them in a little bit more depth.

So when baby's born, obviously they're still connected to the placenta with the umbilical cord.

They're still receiving oxygenated blood for minutes after they've been born.

And so what are the kind of, what are the benefits of that for baby?

Why are we not, why is it recommended that we don't immediately kind of cut and clamp the cord like we did in the kind of 70s or 80s?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So the cord provides a lot of oxygen rich blood that has been passing across the placenta throughout the entire pregnancy.

And not only that, it's got stem cells in it, which are really important building blocks for our body, because as I'm sure you're aware, they can develop into any kind of cell and they're really, really precious.

So not only does the baby get additional blood or blood that it really needs, it also gets these stem cells and continues to get nutrients as well from the blood and from that placenta.

So we think that it is around about 30% additional blood volume that that baby gets.

And there was previously, there was the argument, or I suppose the theory, that by clamping and cutting the cord at birth, it would prevent jaundice because it would prevent too many red blood cells getting across and increasing the levels of bilirubin when those blood cells are broken down after birth, which is a very normal physiological process that all babies have to go through because they have a really high hemoglobin count.

It's around about 22 when ours is around about 11.

Well, that's what mine is at the moment, but I am pregnant myself.

Yeah.

But anyway, so there was that theory.

However, that has been disproved.

Lots of babies have had delayed and optimal cord clamping because they are different things.

Some people get those confused as well.

So that has been completely disproven.

There is no link between increased risk of jaundice and the cord being left to pulsate.

And it's also, we also now understand that actually, that baby getting that blood is more important than the baby potentially getting jaundice anyway.

So if some babies were to develop jaundice, then having less blood is not going to help them.

We know that the benefits of having more blood by far outweigh any potential risk that has previously been highlighted, but since disproven anyway, if that makes sense.

So we now know that giving that baby extra blood, we also know that worldwide, we have a worldwide global problem with anemia.

And anemia under the age of four can sometimes lead to delayed development.

And we know that, of course, we need blood to function.

Everybody knows that.

It's really basic stuff.

So the more blood that the baby has, the richer their system is, and the more able that they're able to grow, and they're able to, so that blood is able to be used for brain development because the brain doubles in size within the first year of life.

So that's a hell of a lot of growing they've got to do.

So they need their resources.

Yeah, absolutely.

And so how does that work then?

Can you talk everybody through how that works with kind of birthing the placenta?

At what stage can the cord be clamped and cut?

I mean, obviously it doesn't have to be clamped and cut at all if you don't want it to be.

So what are the options and the kind of things that women might be deciding with that third stage of labour?

This is the part that never happens in films.

No baby ever has a placenta.

I don't know what they've been living off for now, I have to say, but I don't think I've ever seen a placenta born on TV.

I don't even get me started on the media's portrayal of birth.

Like, honestly, it's just, yes, completely inaccurate the majority of the time.

So with the placenta, yes, so as you've mentioned, there is the option to not have the cord clamped and cut at all.

And still, women do choose that.

But generally not in the UK, if I'm honest.

But sometimes women choose to actually carry the placenta around with them until the cord naturally falls off, which is around about at the very latest day 10, we expect the cord to come off.

But it can come off as early as day five.

So some women do choose to kind of birth the placenta and then cut, I suppose, and then cut it, rather than carrying it, right?

You can kind of cut it literally just after the placenta has been born.

That's a kind of, I suppose, similar option without having to actually lug the placenta around for a week.

Yeah, exactly.

And there isn't any real benefit to, you know, it's part of culture and tradition to do that sometimes.

But there's no real clinical benefit to that.

So clamping and cutting the cord, once it has stopped pulsating, which is optimal cord clamping, so there's no blood left in the cord at all.

And you can really see the difference as well.

Even if you've never seen a cord before yourself as a first time mum, when the baby's first born, it's fat, it's generally like this purpley kind of colour.

And it just goes into this thin spindly white closed off.

And you can see that the blood's drained from it.

Quite astonishing, the difference, isn't it?

It is, it is.

And when you look at that difference, that's when you realise how much nutrients and oxygenated blood that baby is getting when you see the before and the after of the cord.

So what happens is when the baby's born, the placenta, the blood vessel, the placenta will come away from the uterine wall when it's ready to, not all women this happens with.

Sometimes women have something called a retained placenta.

I know that you know about that, Megan, but some women do have a retained placenta.

But most of the time, the placenta will come away from the uterine wall and the vessels will start to close over.

And once that process has happened or been complete, then the baby's no longer getting blood from the mum.

And that's what will cause the cord to stop pulsating because there's no blood flow between mum and baby and it's not required anymore because, of course, baby is adapting to life on the outside as we spoke about with the circulatory system and taking their own breaths.

So that's what happens there.

And then once that's happened, we recommend, yes, completely fine to clamp and cut the cord.

So the other option that you have is delayed cord clamping.

And the RCM recommend, and most hospital policies and guidelines will recommend a minimum of one minute, sorry, after the baby is born.

So that is considered to be delayed cord clamping.

And that is usually done more so at caesarean section, when sometimes optimal cord clamping will be performed at C-section, depending on the obstetrician, the clinical circumstances, the reason for the caesarean section.

There's a lot, it's not...

Lots of people ask questions in midwifery, and they ask, oh, you know, what's right and what's wrong?

And it's hardly ever is it that black and white where you can say, well, you should do this, you should...

Because everyone is so unique, and the circumstances are always really unique.

Yeah, and always...

And developing kind of the whole time, it might be...

Actually, something might be fine to do a minute in, and then actually a situation changes, and it changes what would be suitable.

Yes, yeah, exactly.

But generally speaking, a delayed cord clamping is practiced in hospitals, and it's a clinical recommendation, and we all know now how good it is for that baby to get that additional blood, as I've previously mentioned.

So, yeah, so that's the other option.

And unless there is...

If you were having an act, yeah, if there was a reason for bleeding and you were being recommended or choosing to have an active third stage where they were managing the birth of the placenta, how does delayed cord clamping work there?

Yeah, you can...

It shouldn't interfere whatsoever with delayed cord clamping, having an active management of the third stage.

So that's just where we offer.

And especially if, yeah, if you are at risk of bleeding, or if you do, that's just your preference, that's completely fine.

But that shouldn't interfere with delayed cord clamping, because we think that by the time that the oxytocin or centimetric or ergometric, whatever is given in that trust, by the time that that is in the maternal circulatory system, get across to the center, then it's believed that the baby shouldn't get, shouldn't receive any of that anyway.

And also babies have been for quite some time now receiving uterotonics via induction of labor.

So, you know, sentameterine, sorry, sentocinone, not sentameterine is given intravenously, so into your vein as part of the induction process.

So we also are currently under the understanding that that is not of any, that doesn't cause any adverse effects for the baby either.

So, yeah, so, yeah, delayed call tracking is fine with active management as well.

Fantastic.

So and that's kind of covered loads, that's covered cesareans, that's covered all your kind of options with birth placenta, which I think people will find really helpful.

And so taking it back then to our kind of golden hour, another thing that we've kind of touched on already, but it's really important thing to talk about in a little bit more depth is the kind of having baby skin to skin in that, in that hour after birth.

Let's chat about kind of what that is, the benefits of it for mums and babies.

So as you know, as we spoke about before with the baby has come out of the uterus and it's been in a very controlled environment, and there are lots of changes.

So one of the best gifts that I, that's the easiest way to explain it to new mums, is one of the best gifts you can give your baby simply by being in skin to skin with them for lots of different.

There's lots of science behind it and physiological reasons behind it.

But not only that, it's brilliant for bonding and for getting, if you are planning on breastfeeding, for getting breastfeeding off to the best start possible as well.

And so what it does is it calms the babies down because the baby has heard mum's heartbeat, your heartbeat throughout the entire pregnancy, throughout their entire existence.

They're really used to hearing that sound.

Then when they come out into the world and they've got all of these massive changes going on, not being able to hear that and be close to their mum can sometimes be more difficult for them to adapt.

And not physiologically adapt, but for comfort measures really more than anything.

And then physiologically as well, there was an experiment done on babies that had skin-to-skin for an hour or more at birth.

And those babies actually had warmer feet 24 hours after birth.

And they don't believe that it was just because of the transfer of heat at that time.

The scientists believe that it was because the babies had reduced cortisol levels, meaning that they were able to spend their precious energy resources on growing and developing rather than addressing that sort of stress response.

So it just goes to show how incredible it really is from a science perspective, but also from a...

I mean, most of us have had skin-to-skin with someone.

And we all know how amazing that feeling is when you've got your bare skin touching someone else's skin.

And having that with your baby is, you know, I can't really even describe it in...

I can give you all the science behind it and tell you, you know, they use their thermoregulators...

they use their thermoregulators different to us and talk about brown fats and how different that is in their metabolism and how vulnerable they are to heat loss.

And, you know, it's really good that babies are kept warm because warm babies feed better.

They utilize their energy resources better.

But all of that scientific stuff aside, you won't care about when you're in skin to skin with your baby, because you'll just know that it's the most incredible feeling in the world.

And it's a key part of bonding and breastfeeding.

Yeah.

And I think something that's really like when we talk about I am fascinated by the science behind everything.

I absolutely love to know it.

Like it interests me kind of totally.

But the thing that is I always think is fascinating is that we do all of this research, we find out all of this information, we know skin to skin helps build the microbiome, it helps them feel warm, it helps them build oxytocin.

But our instincts after we've given birth will be to pick up our baby and to put them on our chest.

And it's like we learn all of this science to understand why we want to do these things.

But actually, the kind of innate need to do them doesn't need any, it doesn't actually need any of the science because it's the same with birth.

Like your body tells you how to move, it tells you what to do.

And if you can tune into that instinct, even kind of beyond birth into kind of parenthood, if your baby's crying and it's telling you to pick it up and it feels wrong to leave them, it's because it's wrong to leave them.

And there'll be 100 million scientific reasons why you need to be doing what you instinctively feel like you should be doing.

But your instinct is so important and it will tell you, it will tell you to pick up your baby, it will tell you to put your baby on your test, it will tell you to do everything that we've got all of this now scientific evidence to show.

But for millions of years, we've all been surviving with just that instinct in the same way that other animals do.

You know, dogs don't know that putting their baby close to them is going to keep them warm and going to encourage them to breastfeed.

But they do it anyway.

So, yeah, I think it's great.

And I think I love the science behind it.

But if the science is overwhelming, you're right.

It's just about just doing and just feeling your way through it more than anything else.

Yes.

Yeah, that's it.

And yeah, yeah, exactly.

The one other scientific thing, though, that is quite interesting, while we're talking about the science behind it and regardless of what I've just said about, you know, I can tell you all the science behind it, but at the end of the day, it feels good.

And when you do it, you're not going to care about it.

One thing that is actually quite important, that's fairly recently been proven, is the fact that it can also reduce the risk of bleeding, you bleeding after birth.

And there is a theory that those vessels I previously spoke about also close over quicker when you are in skin-to-skin because of the different hormones that your body releases to say, baby's been born now, now we need to shut off that blood supply.

So that's the other sort of science bit.

But other than, you know, which is, I think, is maybe it's quite nice to know.

But yet, you know, otherwise, as you said, exactly that you just follow, I call it your mum stinked.

If you know what's right for your baby and there's, you know, even people like me, there's so many different advisors out there and different things that you that you may be told that you should and that you shouldn't do.

But at the end of the day, you're the birth boss, you're always the boss.

And you know what is best for your baby.

And at times you may need to seek advice from experts and ask them.

And you may be interested in the science behind things as we both are.

I love the science a bit behind things and why things work a certain way.

But ultimately, you don't have to be qualified.

You don't have to be anything.

When you're a mum, you know what's best for your baby.

And following that mum, mum stinked is really key to having a better experience and just feeling really confident in your own ability to parent because regardless of what you choose for your baby, that's what's right for your family.

And it's not up for as long as you've made an informed decision.

It's not up for anyone else's judgment.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

And that kind of starts at the beginning of pregnancy, really, when it comes to being a parent, doesn't it?

So yeah, the whole way through.

So let's just touch briefly on some of the practical stuff that has to happen after, well, that you will be offered to happen after your baby's been born, and kind of how that fits in with the golden hour, say, like weighing, vitamin K, all of these kind of things, getting baby dressed, whatever it is that happens from a kind of practical level.

You can't stay in this room that you've given birth in forever and ever and ever.

So what are the kind of as a midwife looking after somebody on a birth-inch or a labour ward or at home, what are the kind of things that you would be offering women after their baby's been born?

Yeah, so we offer them the initial check.

So we'll check the baby over and just have a little look at them.

It's a very basic top-to-toe and we make sure we'll have a look at their little ears, the shape of their head.

We'll note down any caput or moulding.

That's just where you can get a little bit of swelling on the head or a little bit of moulding where the bones in the foetal skull are designed to slightly overlap so the baby can pass through the pelvis and change shape.

So we'll just take any notes of any of that that's happened during the birth process.

We'll have a look at the baby's eyes and we'll just do that similar process of running from the top to toe, going down the entire baby's body and just having a really good look.

We'll listen to the baby's heart rate, we'll do some observations, we'll do their temperature, we'll do their breathing rate, and we'll just make sure that the baby looks really nice and healthy.

And if we do have any concerns about the baby's health and well-being or anything, we think, oh, we're not quite sure, because midwives are very well-trained in normality, of course, so we'll be able to say, that's normal, that looks healthy, that all looks fine.

But if we do have any concerns, then we will perhaps recommend that a pediatrician has a look and reviews the baby.

And if it's non-urgent, then the pediatrician, if you've had a home birth, for example, you could get that review slightly later on.

It doesn't mean you need to have to rush into hospital for it.

But a midwife will be able to say, oh, I think that we just need to get this checked.

And either way, within the first 72 hours, although that is more than the 24 that we're talking about, just for reassurance for parents, you have something called the NIPE check.

And that stands for Newborn and Infant Physical Examination.

And that is done by a trained practitioner.

Some midwives are trained to do NIPE, and GPs are trained, and pediatricians are trained.

But the baby will get a full check within 72 hours.

Sometimes it's within the 24 hours of birth as well.

And that's a more in-depth check of the baby.

And again, they run through, they do a top-to-toe, but it's a slightly more in-depth check.

So we'll check the baby over.

We'll also weigh the baby.

And if the baby looks all fine weight-wise, then we don't need to do anything.

If the baby looks a bit, is a little bit underweight, or we think that there's a bit of macrosomia, so that's where the baby's a little bit bigger, then it may be recommended that the baby's closely monitored for blood sugars.

But other than that, we usually, most babies, we weigh them absolutely fine.

And we just make a note of that weight, because that will be part of the baby's long-term.

We'll plot it on the Red Book graph as well.

And that's part of the baby's long-term growth and development.

So that kind of starts there at birth.

And then we'll offer vitamin K as well.

So you can either not have vitamin K at all.

The baby can either, well, you can choose for the baby to either have an injection at birth or have oral vitamin K.

And then we'll just offer you support with feeding.

However, you've chosen to feed the baby.

If you are choosing to breastfeed, then it's the sooner the better to get baby on the breast, really.

And you might have even before we do our checks and weigh the baby and check the baby and give vitamin K, if that's what you've chosen, you may have had the baby on the breast already.

But if you haven't, then we'll just really offer you that feeding support.

And we'll also talk to you if you have chosen to bottle feed, then we'll talk to you about safe bottle feeding as well.

Yeah, fantastic.

And so none of that needs to interrupt that first golden hour, does it?

No, no, not unless we have concerns.

If we have concerns over the baby, so if the baby has been born and we've noticed something at birth, or the baby seems to be, you know, for example, the most common things are if we're noticing a bit of grunting, so the way in which the baby's breathing, or there's been meconium at birth, then that may interrupt that, because it will be recommended that we check the baby over properly sooner to make sure that there's no meconium aspirations.

We're looking to see if the baby has taken in any meconium there.

And also, if the baby's grunting, we just want to have a little closer look at that and make sure that the baby's breathing independently without problems, because, you know, as I've mentioned, there's quite a lot of changes that go on, and the majority of babies, I've been a midwife for a long time, and I could count probably on one, maybe two hands, the amount of babies that I have actually been concerned about at birth, and thought, right, okay, actually, I need to have a bit of a closer look.

And even after that, the majority of the time, it self-results, and they're fine anyway.

But unless they're under those kind of circumstances that there's something else that we need to have a closer look at, there's no other reason that that should be interrupted.

Our checks, weighing the baby, giving vitamin K, can wait, and it should wait.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think that's a perfectly decent thing to be asking for if you're putting together birth preferences and things, to say that for at least an hour, to be kind of as uninterrupted as you can.

And often when you're at home, people find that actually it ends up being much longer than an hour before they end up being interrupted at all.

So there will be a number of women listening, probably a small number, but certainly a few, who find that for one reason or other, actually that golden hour is disrupted.

That might be something that they knew was going to happen before their baby was born, or it might be something that comes as a little bit more of a surprise.

What can we do to support those babies in their kind of transition into the world?

Whether they're kind of being separated from mum, or when they're kind of put back together again, what can we do?

Yeah, so that is really tough for new mums, and new parents in general, and the birth partner as well, because as we spoke about, your instinct is to be protective over your baby, and to be close to your baby.

And when that opportunity is not taken away from you, that's a wrong figure of speech, but I suppose...

Yeah, disrupted for some reason.

Yeah, disrupted is particularly difficult, and I'm not going to sugarcoat that and say, oh yeah, you know, it's fine.

We need to whisk baby off and do these things.

You know, it's really tough.

However, it doesn't mean to say that all of your birth plans and preferences have to go out of the window.

You can still have skin-to-skin at a later date, and that is just as important as it is at birth, if not more important, if you have had that initial separation.

Yeah.

The other thing that I say to parents as well, and I'm definitely doing in my own pregnancy, is I'm playing the same songs in the same playlist on speakers, so the baby can hear as well, throughout the entire pregnancy.

And I'm making a particular effort as well.

So part of it might just be my hypnobirthing that I'm doing.

But I've actually created a little pregnancy playlist as well, where I'll just put it on in the morning when I'm having breakfast, and completely ignore the outside world, and just really focus on thinking about my baby and the good nutritious food that I'm eating, that's going to my baby and listening to that music.

So those things, what's happening internally in my body is there's oxytocin that's being released, there's I'm feeling lovely and relaxed, there's all of those hormones that are flowing around my body to let my baby know we're happy, we're safe, we're well.

And babies do, there has been research to show that babies do remember songs that they heard in the womb.

And so that if you are separated from your baby, just simply playing those songs can really calm both of you down as well, because you'll both associate that with the time when you felt safe, calm and relaxed.

So that although it's a really simple thing, it can make such a big difference.

And then as well, your smell is really, really important to your baby.

Smell is one of our most important senses.

And it's also one of the senses that will never be found in our adult life again.

So the sense of smell that your newborn baby has is far, far better than ours.

And that's to really help them guide you and get to know you as well.

So if you pop something, if they are in an incubator for whatever reason, if you ask the special care staff, the staff nurses, what's safe and what you can put in, so you can just put, there were these little octopus teddy bears that we had at our trust where mum would put them down her top to get her smell in, and then put that in the incubator with the baby.

So if you combine those things, and as soon as you are able to touch your baby, even if it's just touching their little hands or just, you know, stroking their lower back, those things, combining all of those things, is the closest that you are able to get to providing your baby with the things that they would be provided with if that separation didn't happen.

And actually, they do make a massive difference to your baby as well, because they know that they can smell you.

They are like, oh, mum's here, that comes and that.

They can feel your touch.

They can hear that music that reminded them of that blissful time that they had in the womb.

And all of this sounds maybe a little bit hippie-dippy, but we know that science really backs this.

We know that babies that are born prematurely...

And it improves their recovery, doesn't it?

It does.

It improves skin and stuff.

Exactly.

And it also improves their cognitive ability.

So there was tests done on babies that were massaged regularly, that were born prematurely.

They actually gained weight faster, and they performed better in recognition tests.

So again, going back to what we were saying, you can talk about all of the science behind these things.

But instinctively, we know that being close to our babies, our babies being able to smell us, our babies being able to hear our voices and hear that music that we were playing, all of those things just really, really help the baby to get past being separated from you and know that mum's nearby.

Yeah, and I think you kind of mentioned this at the beginning as well, but you can replicate that golden hour at any stage if you need to.

Some people go home and they do their first bath with their baby, and they go, right, this is going to be our moment as though they were being born in this way.

And also that skin-to-skin is not just for mums.

It's for partners, for kind of everybody.

So if the reason for kind of splitting maybe was a reason for mum, then, I mean, they generally do this in all hospitals anyway, but kind of giving baby to birth partner, whether that's mother, mum, dad, whoever, kind of up the top, they can get the warmth, they can get the kind of, they recognize those voices as well.

So there's so many things that we can do just to support that overall kind of physiology for both parents and babies.

Absolutely, that's it.

If, for whatever reason, mum is unable to have skin-to-skin with the baby, the birth partner is fantastic to have skin-to-skin, and it's brilliant.

Although they may not be able to breastfeed, if that's what mum's chosen to do, they'll be able to do all of those other things with that baby and all of the other scientific elements that we spoke about with the regulating of the temperature, the blood sugars, all of those things, making the baby feel calm, listening to that heartbeat, hearing that familiar, all of those things are being met.

And that is just as good for that baby.

Okay, it isn't the smell of mum, it isn't mum, but it's absolutely incredible, and it's the closest that baby is going to get to feeling the most comfortable that it can be outside of the womb.

Yeah, and I always say, just to both parents, to do skin-to-skin...

The benefits of these things, we should point out, aren't just for this first hour after birth.

They go on through the whole of babyhood.

Oh, absolutely.

So, yeah, you can keep them going, keep them going for both parents.

Yes, I always say that, yeah.

So, we've kind of talked in-depth then about that kind of initial hour.

But let's move on to kind of the rest of this first day, because, I mean, some people in this first day, if they gave birth on a birth center or on a hospital, they may find themselves going home.

If you've given birth at home at some point, and that 24 hours, the midwives aren't going to stay for 24 hours, so they're going to kind of go away.

So, what kind of, what physical changes for mum, what should we be expecting to experience, and what should we kind of be aware of, I suppose, in the first 24 hours after birth?

Yeah, so that depends entirely on the type of birth that you had, because it can be quite different.

Having said that, the key things that all women will experience is bleeding after birth.

And we call that lochia, and that's just the shedding of the lining of the womb where your baby's been nestled for the past nine months.

So that all needs to come away.

And depending on whether or not you had oxytocin, centimetry, or ergometry, those drugs that you can have to speed up the delivery of the placenta.

So as we mentioned, that's called active third stage, or active management.

That can also affect your bleeding.

So initially, you might not bleed so much.

There's some research to say you might have a little bit of a heavier loss in the following days after birth.

So either way, women will lose.

And it can be like a heavy period at first.

And a lot of women are really shocked by how much blood they're losing.

However, if you're ever concerned about the amount of blood that you're losing, no matter where you are, if you're at home, if you're in hospital, it's really important to let your midwife know so that we can assess that and make sure that you aren't bleeding too heavily.

But to reassure most mums that you can get fairly heavy bleeding after birth as well.

And then the other things that the mums will experience, regardless of the type of birth that you have had, is that contracting down of the uterus.

So the uterus has come right up to the top of your tummy and just below your boobs, really, sometimes even higher than there.

Your uterus needs to go all the way back down into your pelvis.

So you can get what's called after pains, or often they're described as after pains.

And they can feel like mini contractions are like quite strong period pains.

And again, women are like, well, you know, I've had the baby, I've had the baby by the center, and now I'm getting contractions again.

What's going on?

And that's really normal.

It's just where your uterus is contracting back down into your pelvis.

And it can be quite uncomfortable as well.

I think anecdotally people say that that happens.

The more babies you've had, they tend to get more uncomfortable.

So kind of second, third babies, you go, oh, I didn't have it the first time.

And the second time you're breastfeeding and you're like, what is that?

Yes, that's it.

Yeah.

And it does most commonly, it does happen when you are breastfeeding as well, because again, as we were saying about with the skin to skin, your body sending those hormones to your uterus to say, yes, it's time to clamp back down now, baby's been born.

So yeah, you do get it commonly with that.

And absolutely, the more babies you have, the more uncomfortable those after pains can be.

Yeah, fantastic.

And so these are probably, in all of the questions that I never asked about there, these are probably some of the most asked questions.

But first wee, first poo after you've given birth.

This is always everybody's kind of thing.

The first fear that people tend to have is the kind of baby coming out part.

And then sometimes they go, hang on, I've got to do a wee, I've got to do a poo.

What can we expect?

What can we do to make that more comfortable?

Yeah.

So again, it does depend on what type of birth you've had.

So for example, if you have had a caesarean section, you will have needed to have a catheter, or if you've had an epidural, you will need to have a catheter in place.

And that's just a little tube that's inserted into your urethra that collects wee or urine, because you're not so mobile, so you're not going to be able to get up and take yourself to the toilet.

So when you've had a catheter in, we try and get that catheter out as soon as possible.

Sometimes we can take it out after 12 hours.

And if you're mobile and if you're well, of course, if you're still unable to get up and use the toilet yourself, of course, we don't take it out too soon.

But we try to get the catheter out as soon as possible to reduce the risk of infection.

But anyway, what's been happening is your bladder has been emptied with another mechanism.

So your bladder might just need a little bit of retraining there.

So it can feel really weird going for a wee and almost like your bits don't belong to you.

And that can happen actually, regardless of whether or not you've had a catheter.

But more so where you've had a catheter, your bladder has been working just slightly differently.

So you might need a little bit more retraining with that.

So I say to women, drink plenty of water, at least 2.5 litres of water a day.

And you want to be trying to empty your bladder, say, every three, maybe four hours.

So every time you feed your baby, really, and I mean, babies sometimes do cluster feed and feed a lot more regularly than that.

So that's just more of a general guideline.

But just making sure that you are emptying your bladder nice and regularly as well.

So it's having the opportunity to fill up and then be emptied, fill up and then be emptied as well, and just get that training back in place.

And it can also, if you've had stitches, so that's if you've had a C-section or an epidural, and if you've had stitches, then it can be a little bit stingy having a wee.

So sometimes what I say to women is just pour a jug of warm water over as you wee.

Or if you're comfortable doing so, you can also pee in the bath.

And that can really help to take the sting out of it as well.

And then when it comes to having your first postnatal poo, this is just not given enough attention.

And most people, most women sort of kind of like laugh about it when I say to them, right, we need to plan your first postnatal poo, it's really important.

But jokes aside, it is really important because constipation is bloody painful.

And once you get constipation, it can then really you enter this cycle of struggling to go to the toilet, and it builds up and it becomes more and more uncomfortable.

And then you're more at risk of getting things like hemorrhoids, and it's really difficult to strain, or you don't want to strain after you've had any trauma down below or after you've had a C-section as well.

And then you need to take laxatives.

It kind of becomes this problem that women didn't foresee.

We all talk about babies first poo and meconium or what to do with babies.

Generally speaking, they're actually fine.

They pass their meconium.

That's completely fine.

It's very rare that babies don't poo for the first 24 hours of life.

So when it comes to mum, we just kind of forget about mum.

So make sure that if you haven't been able to move much in...

So say, for example, you've had an epidural.

Rather than be set in the same position, it's good to go onto your side.

You can't wait there.

But it's good for you to go onto your side a little bit and keep changing up positions as well, because sitting in that same position can actually cause the bowel to get a little bit compacted, where you can get an increased risk of constipation.

And not only that, it just can become really uncomfortable down there as well, because you can't feel...

Normally, we would naturally change positions, wouldn't we, if we had sat in that same place for six hours.

You're going to get a numb bum.

It's going to be sore.

It's common sense.

So we just need to make sure if you do have an epidural, and you're having a slightly longer labor, maybe you're being induced, whatever's happening, make sure that you are changing your positions as well.

And just protect yourself after you've had your baby.

Making sure that pre-labor, you are nice and active.

You're eating lots of food that's high fiber.

Constipation can be a problem in pregnancy.

So towards the end of pregnancy, if you can, make a real particular effort to increase your oral hydration, so drinking lots of water.

Make sure that you're eating lots of fibers so you are able to go to the loo.

And also movement as well can really help.

So even if you're just going for gentle walks or doing some stretches or yoga for pregnancy, whatever that is you're doing, stay nice and active, because when your body's active, your digestive system is also active.

And then with going to the loo, I always recommend to use, even if you haven't used hypnobirthing for the birth, you can use your downward breathing that's just simply breathing in and out of your nose and focusing that downward breath, really focusing the energy downwards rather than forcing yourself or straining on the loo.

And if you have got any problems, you can speak to your midwife.

We can give you some lactulose, and we can also talk you through going for your first postnatal poo.

But those are very basic things that seem to help.

And having a footstool as well, so that your legs are slightly elevated, that can really, really help change the way in which the bowel works.

It can just help you go to the toilet a lot easier.

And I would recommend just trying to go, even if you don't feel like you really need to go, just try and sit on the loo, even if it's for five minutes.

Have those five minutes just to do some breathing to yourself anyway, that little time apart.

Shut the bathroom door, have five minutes, just sit there on the toilet, ideally with a footstool, do some downward breathing, and just see what happens sooner rather than later.

And you might go, and if you do, brilliant.

We've started to prevent the problem of constipation.

Yeah, yeah, fantastic.

So while we're on the topic of poo, we kind of touched on baby slightly, but what are we expecting kind of physically from, physically practically from a baby in the first 24 hours?

How often are they feeding?

How often are they going to the toilet?

Like, what's normal for the first 24 hours?

So for the first 24 hours, babies are all quite different.

So sometimes if some babies are born, and they'll have a good first feed at birth, and then they might be exhausted from the birth, depending on what's happened, and they might sleep for quite some time.

And you might need to wake up your baby to feed, whereas other babies will wake naturally, really regularly, want feeding really regularly.

And there's no kind of right or wrong way.

The only thing that I would say is to try and feed on demand unless you have a sleepy baby or a baby that does have jaundice or we're concerned about the baby's weight or health and well-being in another way, shape or form.

And we talk about feeding in another episode in more depth.

But I suppose just in terms of the first 24 hours, they might be slightly different, would you say, from the second day onwards?

Do babies sometimes feed a little less in the first 24 hours?

Yeah, so they can be.

There's a theory that in the first 24 hours that babies can be quite tired from the birth.

And again, all babies are different, so I don't want anyone listening to say, well, my baby wasn't like that, but actually my baby wanted to feed every two hours from birth.

Yeah, also normal.

Also normal, exactly.

However, there is a theory that babies fall into a bit of a deep sleep in that first 24 hours, and lots of women do report this.

And then when they wake up from that, suddenly they want to feed all the time.

You know, we're talking every hour and a half, and that is sometimes referred to a second night syndrome.

So you kind of think like, oh, I've got a really chilled baby, and they just slept for hours, this is great.

And then the second night comes, and you know, you barely get a wink.

That was our exact situation.

Yeah, very relaxed.

We had this angel baby that was going like four hours, featuring food, she was totally happy.

Yeah, second night.

It was near constant.

It's a different baby.

I think it was nine hours of a baby attached.

But they do eventually kind of regulate themselves a little bit.

But that's a whole different conversation in itself.

So that will be a whole other podcast episode.

I think I interrupted you talking about what else was normal for babies the first 24 hours.

So babies pass something called meconium.

It isn't really like owl poo or adult poo, of course.

They've not eaten before.

And it's just what's left over in the bowels from the uterus, from when they've been in the uterus rather.

So that's like epithelial cells and things like that, amniotic fluid.

So the babies pass meconium, and it's black and sticky.

It looks a little bit like marmite, and it's quite difficult to get off.

And if the baby's feeding well, then generally speaking, you should notice by about day three, sometimes up to day five, the baby's poo should really start to change color.

If you don't notice any change by day three, then you want to be telling somebody, because we would need to assess, well, you want to tell your midwife, we need to assess that.

I mean, we come round and speak to you about everything anyway, and we make sure that baby's fine.

But if you've got any concerns over that, it's always best to raise them sooner rather than later.

But they pass this meconium, and yeah, it's really sticky.

And then it starts to change, and you'll notice more of like a greener kind of colour.

And then it goes on to, so that's usually about day three to four.

Then after that, sort of day five-ish, day six, you'll notice, especially if you're breastfeeding your baby, like a mustard kind of poo coming away, that's completely normal.

It looks a little bit like seeds, and then from then on, you should, like older babies generally, they have like a mustardy type poo after that.

So that first week, really, that first sort of day one to six, you'll notice all different changes in what's coming away in their nappy.

And generally, that's very normal.

Just make sure that, you know, you run anything past your midwife that you're not sure about.

But it goes, as I said, from that black sticky stuff, it then turns a bit green, it then goes sort of mustardy, yellowy.

And then after that, you get more of, like, rather than the French mustard, you get more of English mustard after that.

And that's all very normal part of the physiological process that the baby goes through.

And then in terms of wheeze, we generally say for the first week, we say that the baby should whee around about the amount of days old that it is.

So it should at least be having one whee on day one, and then one to two should be two wheeze.

If it's three days to four days, you'd have three to four wheeze.

So generally speaking, that's the kind of guide that we use.

Fantastic.

So I'm very aware that I think we could...

I'm surprised that you can probably talk for 24 hours about the first 24 hours of the week.

But I reckon we're probably good.

But the fact that it's really, really important to touch on with the first 24 hours after birth.

And it's something that even having cared for women in labour, looked after lots of people, and to Natalie, when I had my own baby, it was the one thing that really surprised me, is just the emotions and the feelings that you, number one, expect to feel when your baby's been born, and then number two, what the reality is.

And I suppose just highlighting that there's lots of normals here.

I think you, well, I certainly anticipated this kind of overwhelming brush of unbreakable love between me and my baby.

I remember him being born and just going, God, who are you?

You're not who I was expecting.

And it was more of one of, I didn't not like him, but it was more of like a surprise, and a kind of like we had to start to get to know each other, and he just wasn't what I was expecting.

And that, I mean, now, like, I just, he's my absolute world, but you, it was more of a slow grower.

So I suppose just highlighting that we, that anything there is essentially a normal reaction in the first instance.

Yeah, absolutely.

You need time, you both need time to get to know each other.

And some women do have this overwhelming love for their baby, and they're instantly besotted by their baby.

But lots of women, and I don't think that we necessarily even admit this openly to one another, and other mothers, and our family members, and maybe even women don't admit it to me as a midwife.

But lots of women do, and they do say, I'm not sure about this.

I feel really weird.

I feel like, you know, my whole life is just completely turned upside down, and I'm not quite sure who I am because I'm just caring for this baby.

And I feel a bit, you know, it's kind of not what I...

I don't know what I expected, but it's not really, you know, the idea that I had in mind.

And that is really, really normal to feel, a bit unsure, a bit uncertain, a bit vulnerable.

And it's an entirely new person.

Yes, you have been carrying them for nine months, but it's still a new person that has different needs to what they needed when they were in your tummy.

And that adjustment can just take time.

And there's no right or wrong way to be.

Of course, if you're concerned about your mental health and developing postnatal depression, which you do really need to talk to someone about as soon as possible.

If at any stage you're concerned about your mental health, Midwebs are always here for you, your health visitor, your GP.

There's lots of other online support as well that you can reach out.

Dr.

Rebecca Moore is fantastic.

Yeah, we've got a podcast repair as well.

Oh, brilliant.

So, you know, there's lots of other resources.

But anyway, aside from that, it's normal to feel a bit uncertain and a bit unsure.

Yeah, and I think just pointing out that if you don't feel that instantaneous love, it doesn't mean that you're going to develop postnatal depression either.

No.

The two things aren't necessarily related.

No, they're not correlated.

Yeah, exactly.

But I suppose I mentioned that more if anyone is feeling depressed that I'm not kind of mentioning.

But you're 100% right.

That can be very normal, and it doesn't mean that there's a problem there.

It just means, like the birth pause, where you've gone from this very different state of mind to having your neocortex switched on and being really modern, it's a very similar thing.

A massive transition has happened in your life that has changed the rest of your life forever.

And that is difficult to comprehend.

It's difficult to anticipate.

It's difficult to plan for.

And when you're there, you probably know what I mean.

And if you've been there, you'll definitely know what I mean.

But try not to put any kind of label on it.

Try not to judge yourself.

Maybe just notice your feelings and observe them rather than think, I shouldn't be feeling, oh, what's wrong with me?

Just say, okay, well, this is how I feel today.

I feel a little bit lost today.

Oh, I feel like, you know, I'm enjoying this, but it's a bit strange.

Just observe how you're feeling without any judgment at all.

And the bond will generally, will gradually build and grow between you two, especially if you don't put pressure on yourself.

If you start judging yourself and putting pressure on yourself, that's when you're perhaps going to actually damage your own mental health.

But just be really kind to yourself and realise you've gone through a massive change.

It's totally okay to be a bit unsure.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Well, I mean, we're coming up to an hour, so we might have to, unfortunately, kind of wrap it up here.

But thank you so much.

That was, I think, really insightful.

That's going to be so useful for people, particularly if they haven't had a baby before, about kind of what that first, what that first 24 hours might kind of look like for them.

And, you know, as Marie says, every baby is totally different, totally unique.

So nobody's first 24 hours are going to look exactly the same.

But I think there'll be a lot of stuff that we've talked about that rings true for lots of you, I imagine.

So before we kind of chat about your book a tiny little bit, there's one question I always ask to everybody to kind of finish our podcast.

And if you could gift a pregnant, birthing, or new parent one thing, what would it be?

If it didn't have to be a physical gift.

It doesn't have to be a physical gift.

Because there's loads.

But I would just really simply, self-belief and confidence.

I just think they're so underrated how you feel about yourself.

And having that, you can do it.

You are going to be an amazing mom.

You are an amazing mom.

Just having that self-belief, I think we don't have enough of.

We have so much pressure from so many angles nowadays, you know, from social media, even.

I love Instagram.

You know, I'm on it every single day.

But it can create a lot of pressure living in this digital age to seek perfection and, you know, to have a gluten-free child or vegan child or, you know, whatever lifestyle you choose to follow yourself.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those.

I'm vegan myself.

But that kind of quest for perfection, to be a better person, a better mother, you know, if I could give anyone, any pregnant woman, birthing mother or new mum something, it would definitely be self-belief and confidence.

Okay, well, I'm going to send that virtually to you through the microphone and give you that for when you have your baby in a few weeks.

So if people, like what we've touched on, is literally about four pages worth of knowledge and insight from Marie's new book.

So if people are kind of interested in finding out more, can you just give us a very brief rundown of your book and let people know where they can get hold of it?

Yeah, sure.

So I wrote the book almost as though the easiest way for me to describe it is that my sister is having a baby, having her first baby, and I have said, there you go.

Here is everything that I have learned in my time as a midwife that I think that you really need to know.

I mean, I can't tell you everything that you're definitely going to know because everyone is different and unique.

But the key points that everybody needs to know, I've just put that in the book about pregnancy, about birth preparation, about birth itself, and about the post-natal period covering the first 24 hours, and well beyond that as well.

And if anyone does want to buy it, I mean, it's really difficult to talk about it because there's so much in the book.

It is crammed, it is absolutely crammed, like crammed full.

And the thing that I think is fantastic about it is that it has kind of two perspectives.

It has the kind of the mum being the center of it, kind of what it's going to feel like, the emotional.

It's very kind of nurturing, but also it just has all the practical stuff.

It's like when you turn up to a midwife appointment, this is what might happen.

And there are all the questions that people have.

They go, I'm going for this appointment.

What is it for?

What's going on?

It's a great balance, I think, of kind of support and emotional support, but kind of practical info as well.

Yeah.

Oh, thank you.

I think that you did a better job of talking.

It's hard to talk about your own work, isn't it?

That's what I aim for, is for it to be practically supportive.

And, you know, my perspective as a midwife saying, you know, this is what to expect.

But alongside that, really being, supporting your emotional health and well-being as well and making sure that you are really looking after yourself.

And I kind of talk about this sacred circle that the moment you find out you're pregnant, just draw that around you and try and stain that as much as possible.

Because how you feel is really, really important throughout your entire pregnancy.

So, yes, if anyone does want to buy it, it's available on Amazon.

And it's called The Modern Midwife's Guide to Pregnancy, Birth and Beyond by Marie Louise.

Yes, that's it.

Thank you.

Well, thanks so much for joining me.

I hope lots of people go out and get lots more info from the book.

And if you want to follow Marie on Instagram, she is The Modern Midwife.

And I will tag all of these things in the show notes as well.

Oh, amazing.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

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