Podcast: Exercise for Pregnancy, Birth & Beyond with Guests, PT Charlie Launder and Midwife & PT Emily Pullan

Exercise for Pregnancy, Birth & Beyond with Guests, PT Charlie Launder and Midwife & PT Emily Pullan

Season 1, Episode 12

Does the way you exercise need to change because you fall pregnant? What about if you've never exercised before? Is now a good time to start?

This week we're bring you an up beat episode chatting through all things exercise when it comes to having a baby! From the physical and mental benefits, the impact on birth itself, things to be aware of and building it into your recovery for birth.

Joining me are Personal Trainer Charlie Launder- founder of Bumps and Burpees; and B&B Personal Trainer and NHS Midwife Emily Pullan.

Some great tips for pregnancy, birth and beyond whether you're used to attending Cross Fit 5 mornings a week or if jogging for the bus has been your weekly work out up 'til now!

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TRANSCRIPT

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I know right now you have no idea what to expect from birth, what it's going to feel like, how it's going to pan out.

And so what you thought was going to be this glowing experience of pregnancy has turned you into a bunch of nerves.

Well, you were in the right place because I am here to hold your hand as you prepare for the birth of your baby through the birth-ed online course.

The course that gives you the information you thought you were going to get from your antenatal appointments and didn't.

The birth-ed course opens your eyes to everything you need to navigate your pregnancy and birth choices so you can feel confident, informed and ready to take back control.

Available worldwide for just £40 or $50, sign up now via the link in the show notes.

Thanks for.

Thanks.

Welcome to the birth-ed podcast, where we open up conversations about all aspects of pregnancy, birth and parenthood.

So you feel fully informed, confident and positive about what this journey might entail.

I'm Megan Rossiter, founder of birth-ed, and your host here at the birth-ed podcast.

Birth-ed offers comprehensive, positively presented antenatal and hypnobirthing classes, both in person and online.

So if you like what you hear, be sure to come check us out on our website or social media.

Don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss any of our upcoming episodes.

Believe me when I say we will leave no stone unturned when it comes to preparing you for your pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period.

Okay.

Before we kick off today, I just wanted to take a moment to tell you about the courses offered by Birth-Ed, because we are actually a little bit more than just a pregnancy, birth and parenthood podcast.

We offer in-person courses in the UK and an online course, which is accessible worldwide.

The Birth-Ed course is totally unique in that it offers both a comprehensive antenatal preparation, so covering everything, all your birth choices, possible interventions, decision-making tools, your pain relief options, your birthplace choices, optimal positioning, kind of everything that you might want to know about having a baby.

But also included in that is a full hypnobirthing course.

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And ultimately the whole course is there to get you to a place where you feel confident and excited about giving birth.

Thousands of parents have accessed the birth-ed courses now.

And time and time again, they're getting in touch to let me know that they had the positive birth experience that they set out for in whichever way ended up being the right way for them and their babies on the day.

So if you're enjoying the podcast content, but you're thinking you might want a few more kind of practical ways to prepare for birth, then you can visit our website or drop me an email for more information.

Hi, welcome back to The birth-ed podcast.

Today I am joined by Charlie Launder, who's founder of Bumps and Burpees, pre and postnatal trainer, and is also currently expecting a burpee.

We're also joined by Emily Pullan, who's an NHS midwife and a pre and postnatal trainer with Bumps and Burpees.

So ladies, welcome, thank you for joining me.

So in today's episode, it's probably obvious from the introduction, but we're gonna be chatting about exercise in pregnancy and the kind of postnatal period.

So why, before we kind of kick off, why don't you just, Charlie, tell us a little bit about Bumps and Burpees, sort of what work you do with women during this time.

Yeah, of course.

So Bumps and Burpees is, it starts just us being fitness for expectant and new mums.

And the more and more it's grown, it's become a little bit more lifestyle, so about supporting mums through this time, and making sure that they are healthy and happy and find exercise and things, not a chore and something that they dread, like really helping them fit it into their lives.

So Bumps and Burpees is an online platform, too.

So we have lots of free content for people to follow on Instagram and things, downloadable e-books, but also we have personal trainers, like Emily, who go to people's houses.

So actually, that's where we try and make things so easy for the mums.

So we sort of are nanny slash personal trainers.

So we do what we can to help with the baby, to make it something that a mum can fit into their life.

So a bit of everything.

We're therapists, nanny, PT.

Yeah, we just come and we bring everything that the mum needs so that they don't need to worry about anything other than being there when we come.

Yeah, fantastic.

So I suppose probably a kind of good place to start would be with the benefits of exercise in pregnancy itself.

So Emily, do you want to tell us a little bit about why we should be considering exercising when we're pregnant?

Well, we could ramble on about this all day.

We just know that there's so much evidence out there to show that exercise is so beneficial to both the mum and the baby in pregnancy.

Whilst maintaining a healthy weight, there's also other kind of benefits like preventing any other pregnancy complications.

What else is there, Charlie?

Well, I mean, there's one thing on the mental aspect is that a lot of things are changing during pregnancy and sort of out of your control.

And if you liked exercising before, it's something quite nice to do that makes you feel like you're still sort of your old self.

You've still got a sense of yourself, et cetera.

Yeah, and you're doing something that you enjoy.

And even if you didn't do it before, and you can start to do it again, you sort of have control in that one hour or 45 minutes slot.

And it's your time for you, rather than, oh, well, I have to be careful because I'm pregnant, all these kind of things.

Yeah, I think recently, you know, people think that pregnancy is like an ailment.

And it's like, you know, it's almost a disease where it's not now, but the attitude is definitely changing.

And people are seeing pregnancies.

Yeah, it's so nice to see the mums realize what they can do.

Exactly.

And getting strong and everything.

And a lot of what Bumps and Burpees do, we do preparation for motherhood.

So a lot of the work we do is strengthening the upper back, ready to be lifting a baby in and out of a cot, and squatting down to pick up nappies from the floor or whatever.

We do a lot of functional movements, don't we?

Yeah, which is why it's crazy that in my mums, and definitely my grandma's era, they were told they had to be as still as possible.

Yeah, bed rest.

And it's just then it's like they're expected to be a mum and do all these things when they've not worked on the muscles needed for it.

So it's almost, when people say, can I exercise when I'm pregnant?

And I say, yes, you can and you should.

If you can do it, you know, physically, then you should in some form because you're preparing yourself for the biggest marathon of your life basically.

And it is that.

So if someone came to us and said they were gonna do a marathon, there's no way we'd say, okay, so for the next nine months, lie down loads and then on the day, we'll see how it goes.

You'd never say that.

So I kind of say it to clients like that and to women who ask me online.

That's the kind of thing, your goals are changed.

They're no longer for weight loss and aesthetic reasons.

Even though they might be part of that, it's more to prepare you for what's to come.

In labor, you guys know, you might be squatting for a lot of the time.

If your legs can't take your weight, then that's gonna be so hard.

You need to be strong, like mentally, physically.

It's a massive endurance.

It's a marathon.

The benefits of pregnancy, exercise and pregnancy are just, there's so many and they depend kind of per person.

But preparation, I'd say, is the main one.

It's preparing your body for what's to come.

And to be able to handle the changes your body gives you throughout those nine or 10 months, just center of balance changes.

All these things.

And if you're not strong to kind of withstand that, you're gonna really have a tough time.

And women are exercising anyway, just leaning and reaching to get a tin out of the top cupboard or all of that stuff.

So whilst their bump is starting to grow, then their center of gravity's gonna go off a little bit.

So they need to have those muscles kind of developed in that fitness in order to be able to still function whilst they're like eight, nine months pregnant.

It's so hard to do it and to be like, you know what, I can keep going.

Exactly.

I think it's a really exciting time.

And obviously there are people who will be listening going, I couldn't exercise because I was so sick or I couldn't exercise because I had pelvic girdle pain.

And these things happen, even if you do everything that you're told.

Unfortunately, some people just can't exercise.

And that isn't anything to worry about.

I always, I get people messaging me, panic so much thinking, I haven't done the exercise you say that you should do.

Is my labor gonna be awful?

And you know what, it might be completely fine.

And if you couldn't exercise, there's nothing you can do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You couldn't exercise, you couldn't exercise.

In that case, I'd say to people, try to lead an active lifestyle instead.

Yeah, move, move your body.

Do a bit of yoga at home, stretching, those kind of things.

But sometimes you can, with all the best will in the world, it just doesn't work.

So, we recommend it, but don't panic if you.

Yeah.

So there's probably kind of two, I'd say for two groups of women listening to this.

And I think between the three of us, we probably represent these people quite well.

You two being on one side and me being on the other side.

So people that kind of exercise a lot and the questions that they have are probably, what should I stop doing?

What can I carry on doing?

And then kind of people that come to pregnancy and go, right, I think I'm gonna try exercising.

So let's kind of start with probably the people that are maybe a bit more like you, people that are kind of in their day-to-day lives, really quite active, do quite a lot of exercise.

I know Charlie does quite a lot of gymnastics or did do quite a lot of gymnastics.

And so when you are pregnant, if you're somebody that's used to exercising, are there any changes that they should be making to the way that they practise, the way that they exercise?

What would your general info on that be?

Well, this is interesting because now that I'm pregnant myself, it hasn't changed the advice I give people, but it's made me really empathise with people a little bit more.

So the first thing I'd say is that your body is very good at telling you what is good for you and what isn't because it was whether you listen to it or not.

It will give you some niggles and pains and things that aren't quite comfortable for you.

The thing to remember is there's not a huge amount in terms of exercise selection that's dangerous for the baby.

So people say to me, can I lunge?

I was like, yeah, you can lunge.

Not doing a lunge is going to cause something to go wrong, but maybe doing too many, that means you're dizzy and you fall over, that's a different story.

So in the types of exercise you do, I'd say obviously there's a few things, well maybe not obviously, that you would avoid and that's things like hot yoga, where your temperature is going to soar.

I mean, I don't know about you, but when I did it when I wasn't pregnant, it was so tough to even stay in a room, I was so dizzy, I felt so hot anyway.

Things like that, things that have a very high risk of falling, so that's why gymnastics is up window to me because it's basically a sport where you fall all the time.

And then we don't want anyone to land on their bum and then damage themselves.

Exactly, so I think if you have any risk of falling or someone falling into you, so contact sports.

Those are the ones that come to my mind first.

And then the other thing is, for me anyway, I stopped doing high intensity stuff, just for the beginning, first of all, I was knackered, so that kind of made that decision easy.

I don't really fancy it.

And the other thing is that you want to be able to maintain a good level of breathing.

And don't panic about the number on your heart rate monitor, but more that if you can carry out a normal-ish conversation, then you're fine.

So working at like a 70% of your normal, like I'm the kind of person that absolutely loves pushing myself to 110%.

I love it.

You know, my legs are shaking and I'm like, yes, this is so great.

So that's the kind of thing is out.

It's just changing the attitude, isn't it?

You're not working out now to like absolutely kill yourself and you're dripping with sweat and then you go home and you're like, yes, I've done it.

It's hard transition to make, so especially for people who've only ever done that.

For me, gymnastics was like training four hours at a time.

That's just like a normal training session for me.

So yeah, changing the goal is the goal.

But then the other thing is strength.

So as we said before, it's important to be strong.

It doesn't mean you've got to go and lift loads of weights.

You could be doing Pilates to stay strong.

But if you want to lift weights, that's completely fine.

But again, working at sort of 70%.

So I always say being able to lift the weight 10 times, sort of comfortably, is quite a good range to be in.

If you're struggling to get to five reps, it's probably too heavy for you, and you're gonna be straining muscles that you don't need to be straining and things like this.

So change your goal in that you don't want to be doing any one rep maxes at the moment, or you don't want to be lifting something.

You know in the gym when you see if you're lifting a weight over the head and then you put it down and they're seeing stars?

That's not for now.

And with all the physiological changes.

I'm nodding, like I know that that happened.

I've never seen this happen, but that's because I don't go for the dip.

I believe that it happens.

Pushing themselves to the very limit.

And you know, it feels amazing to do it.

Different rushes are crazy, but it's not for pregnancy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You want to be able to do it.

In pregnancy, with all the blood pressure changes going on, you know, your hormones are a bit over the place, you might feel more breathless, your heart rate might spike a bit quicker.

Oh, well, it definitely does that, by the way.

Yeah.

The first time I stayed at the warm-up, my Apple watch told me to slow down.

Yeah.

That's nothing to worry about, because for me, I knew that was a normal heart rate, and I could bring it down.

But yeah, it was so right.

So we always say, if you want to exercise in pregnancy, you always spend a little bit longer warming up and a little bit longer cooling down, because if you suddenly spike your heart rate or suddenly let it drop down, then you might feel a little bit faint, your blood pressure might go all over the place, and then you're at the risk of feeling dizzy, fainting, and perhaps falling on your bump.

So all of these things are basically because of all the physiological changes happening in pregnancy.

Yeah, and there are a lot of women who are very afraid of sweating in pregnancy.

Does that mean I'm putting myself too hard?

And it doesn't.

Everybody's so different.

They're like, I'm quite a sweaty exerciser anyway.

So there are some people who will do the same session and they'll look like they've just walked out of a shower and as fresh as anything and I look awful.

So it's just your body's way of cooling down.

So you can sweat, you can get your heart rate up.

And you are more sweaty in pregnancy anyway.

Just make sure that you can bring your heart rate down again.

It doesn't stay up even when you're resting.

So that's a sort of guide.

So don't be counting your pulse with your finger going like, oh, I'm going to be full five in the gym because a 20 year old and a 40 year old are going to have different heart rates.

An athlete and a non-athlete are going to have different heart rates.

So it's something to be aware of, but not to panic too much.

I've been doing spinning, for example, but when they're pushing as hard as they can, everyone's got their heads down, they're fighting so hard.

I'm just sort of taking it a bit easier.

Cause I feel like that's better for me.

And I think it's hydration as well.

You have to drink more water in pregnancy anyway and in the postnatal period.

Especially if you're breastfeeding.

But it's just being mindful that you've done an exercise, you've been sweating and you're at an increased risk of being dehydrated in pregnancy anyway if you're being sick and all of that.

So then you just need to be more mindful, right, I should probably hydrate more than I would if I wasn't pregnant.

So I think just understanding your body and why we recommend doing things and not doing things.

I think if you understand your body, then you're more likely to.

And if you exercise a lot, you're probably fairly in tune with.

Yeah, but we're all valid in that.

It's like, do you listen to it or not?

Because when you're not pregnant and you feel a twinge, you might be like, oh, push through, I'm nearly getting my touch-not-baths or something.

It's now like, no, that twinge is probably for a reason.

I mean, I can't really listen to the twinges.

But those are the kind of things that if someone excels a lot, we tend to have to slow them down a bit.

This is why you can't do that.

This is why you shouldn't.

Whereas the other type of people, yeah, it's a very different story.

It's good, I think that it sounds like it's really good practice for labour and birth anyway.

And just pregnancy in general, listening to your body is so important and learning to kind of tune in to it.

And knowing that something I always talk to women about is that your body rarely lies to you.

It doesn't tell you to stop doing something or to move in a certain way.

Yeah, and ignore it.

But yeah, practising that is kind of crucial.

We're not very good at that, are we?

We all need to practise that.

So if you, so people that are kind of used to exercising regularly, kind of maybe attending classes, would you recommend that they start going to kind of pregnancy-specific classes or just being mindful of it in their normal class?

I would recommend that for the beginning because most pregnancy classes are filled with women who are in their third trimester, they might be like waiting to give birth.

Yeah.

And so if you go to a pregnancy-specific class, you might be finding it quite easy.

Yeah.

Or quite boring.

And in trimester one, there's not much that you can't really do.

It's much the same as a non-pregnant state.

But I would tell them.

It just depends how you feel.

Even if you haven't told any of your friends or family yet, I would take the instructor to one side and just give them the heads up just in case you need a bit of extra rest because you're feeling sick, they're not going to come over and be like, keep going, keep going.

They know and they can keep a quiet eye on you.

So I'd definitely tell them.

But just go to your normal classes.

Unless it's like a super high-intensity, crazy class that you usually feel sick in anyway, maybe it's not the time for that.

And you might struggle to pull it back a few notches because you're in that environment.

So it might be, I'd pick a different class.

Because I'm very competitive.

So before I got pregnant, well, actually for the wedding, basically, the year before, I used to go to Barry's Bootcamp, which I absolutely love.

And it's a high-intensity, like running, sprinting, and weights class.

And I am very competitive with myself, don't care what anyone else is doing.

But if the instructor comes near me, I'm going hard, because I don't want them to think I'm slacking.

So I had to stop going to them, because the instructors got to know me, and they would be like, why is Charlie slacking so much?

And even if I told them I was pregnant, I would still probably compete with my previous self.

So I just had to take myself out of that situation and just not go.

Yeah, and it doesn't mean it's off the cards forever, you can go back.

And some clients of mine go to these classes all the way through their pregnancy, and they feel fine, but I make it very clear to them that how do you feel today?

It doesn't, you know, even if tomorrow you feel better, today might be a day where your pelvis is hurting you or you feel a bit exhausted.

You have to judge yourself on that moment and say is this right for me today?

Yeah, and remembering those trainers as well in those classes, you know, made for your non-pregnant being.

And then it comes to 50 people.

They, yeah, and as a normal, you know, a personal trainer who just trains, you know, your average age group, they don't have much experience in pregnancy, postnatal.

I think you get like a little one session or one little workbook in your training.

It's very, very minimal and they just know, be careful, she doesn't faint and maybe don't do so much jumping and like careful of your pelvic floor.

Like that's actually all you know about.

It always makes me laugh in a class when they say, any pregnancies and you see someone put their hands up and then nothing is done.

And then the instructor goes over like, oh, just a...

Let me know if you need anything.

So just like, you gotta be responsible for yourself.

I would say first trimester, normal classes definitely.

If you decide you want to go to a pregnancy yoga class, whatever, totally fine.

You can go to any stage, but if you're an avid exerciser before, you might just find it a bit frustrating.

So save it till a little bit later on.

Yeah, then definitely second, third trimester.

I think it's a really great thing to go to.

It's a pregnancy specific, either a pregnancy specialist, you know, personal trainer, one-to-one, or classes, or like Charlie said, you know, yoga or Pilates, pregnancy specific.

It's also the language they use.

They'll start to talk about why you're doing this for your mom, for your baby, and all these things.

It's quite nice because you'll meet other people that also like exercising.

Yeah.

So you know that you're kind of a similar person.

And you know you're in safe hands.

That instructor or personal trainer is a specialist in that field, and they know everything.

And they can also answer your questions if you had any niggles or questions.

Yeah.

Hopefully, they could help you.

Yeah, exactly.

So I suppose this is a Charlie specific question, but how have you coped with the, I suppose emotionally, with the kind of having to stop, I suppose having to change the way that you're exercising?

Yeah, it's so interesting because a lot of people who follow me on social media just assume that because I'm qualified, it's just easy.

Yeah.

And yeah, I know what I'm supposed to be doing, but I'm pulling it into practice as much as possible.

But it's so tough to mentally bring yourself down from being such a high achiever in sport and exercise and trying to do your best all the time and also be known for that.

So I was known for back flipping and being good at exercise basically.

And then all of a sudden, I'm like, before I told everyone, they're like, oh, you started swimming and you're not running anymore.

You know, I was like, ah, it's so hard.

So for me, it's helpful that my husband's very supportive of it.

First of all, he's like you, doesn't really like it.

We should rest.

So it's good because he gets it.

And some days when I'm feeling a bit off about it, because my bumps in the stage now where it's sort of a bump, sort of just a lump.

And so I'm like, oh God, I feel so awful.

And he's like, reminds me of why, why, we're doing this and everything.

But then the other thing is I'm just talking kindly to myself a bit more.

Like so yesterday, I planned to work out in the morning, didn't do it, planned to work out at lunchtime, didn't do it, planned to do it in the afternoon.

And actually at that point was blooming knuckers.

So I had a nap and I felt so good for it.

When I put it on Instagram, a lot of people said, oh, I'm so happy that you did that, because I did too.

I realized that people might just think I'm just sailing through.

And actually it is hard and I missed gymnastics.

Instagram is a wonderful thing, but also you can just see people like just smashing life everywhere.

And yeah, I missed it.

And who knows whether I'm gonna go back to it afterwards.

You just don't know what your body's gonna do.

So what I'm doing is planning my workouts ahead of time.

Like, oh, tomorrow I'm gonna go to the gym and I'm gonna try and do a lower body strength session.

But if I get there and I feel like, actually I don't know if that's gonna be good for me today, I'm very happy to change what I'm doing.

Or maybe go for a gentle swim or more stretching.

So I'm being a little bit more flexible with myself.

And you know, some days my workout will be a long walk.

And that to me used to never count.

Yeah, whereas now I'm just trying to make my day a bit more all-rounder if I can.

And just being a bit kinder to myself.

But not every day is easy.

Some days I really, inside I'm punishing myself and it's so hard.

And you have to almost look at your app with the baby growing and you're like, this is why I'm doing this.

So I totally understand that when people say they miss HIIT workouts and all these things, I always say to them, if you really want to do it and you feel fine, then you can do it, but just promise me that you're gonna do it sensibly and listen to yourself.

Because if you're the kind of person that if anything were to happen and you blamed yourself for that.

So that's the reason why I'm not going to Barry's, for example, until I know I can pull myself back and not compete in those classes.

It's not for me because I would blame myself for it.

So I think the answer for me has been just to like, take a second to think about what I'm doing, listen to my body and forgive myself for the times where I've had to sort of change things.

Because before, if I was tired, I would just push through a workout.

I wouldn't forgive myself for it at all and I would never just take a nap instead of do a workout.

I would just, you know, come on Charlie, you probably haven't eaten enough, just go, go, go.

Whereas now, it's funny, you have this new respect for your body, which is so stupid that you have to be pregnant to get that.

But I am trying to like nourish my body and like eat better and move better, which I wish I did before, but.

I suppose it's because you also suddenly feel responsible for somebody else.

Like you're not just responsible for yourself anymore, but there's someone else.

You have that weird maternal instinct immediately.

And it's like, yeah, you want to be kind to your body, which I wish I didn't have to be pregnant to do that.

Yeah, it has changed a little bit, but it does not mean that I find it easy watching all my friends smashing up with half-lips and doing good work.

So yeah, day by day, but it's good for me to be going through this because I can be more empathetic.

Like, oh, when you have morning sickness, it really is quite bad.

You know, because I used to say, you know, try and go to the gym.

So yeah, it's interesting.

But I'm just going on day by day and seeing how it goes.

So for the people kind of, I guess, on the other side of the exercising table, on the side of the table that I am standing on, who kind of maybe haven't been exercising up until the point that they fall pregnant and then become pregnant and go, okay, right.

I'm gonna, again, because you get a similar thing.

You get a kind of, often get a new respect for your body.

And you suddenly feel like, you should be excited.

It's not just for me anymore.

It's for somebody else and it's for the birth.

And it's for, you know, all of that suddenly becomes more important.

Or they're saying that when I was pregnant, I vowed that I was gonna eat incredibly healthy for the whole of my pregnancy.

Yeah, that didn't happen.

But I did go to pregnancy yoga, mainly because they did like a half an hour nap at the end.

And they gave me about three biscuits.

But I do remember thinking like, so what shall I try?

So what would you say is like, where is like a good place to start if you're starting exercising for the very first time, presumably not turning up at a high intensity class?

Yeah, don't do that, don't do that.

Four weeks.

That's one of the reasons why I wanted to become a personal trainer specialising in pre and postnatal, because as a midwife, when we do the initial booking appointment, when someone comes to us first, when they're pregnant, we do like a very small conversation about diet and exercise in pregnancy.

And as midwives, we just get talked, just say, do what you've always done, and just listen to your body and maybe do some swimming and some walking.

Yeah.

That means that some people who have never exercised think they can't exercise.

So do what you've always done.

Well, I've never exercised before, so I'm going to carry on.

But it is safe to start exercising in pregnancy.

Obviously, you've got to be mindful you can't just go to level 10 and you've never even walked more than 10 minutes.

That's when you should go to a pregnancy-specific site.

Exactly, yeah.

Just so you're getting that extra support and you're starting at the shallow end, you're not jumping in going, oh, I'll just go to body pump.

And then you can't walk for a week.

That's not going to do anyone any good.

But I always recommend start with what you like doing.

Exercise doesn't have to be the same for everyone.

If you like walking, great.

If you like swimming, great.

Don't start swimming if you hate it, because that's not going to do anyone ever good.

I had a client say, oh, when shall I start Pilates then?

And it's like, oh, no, you don't have to.

She's like, really?

God, I hate Pilates or whatever.

She just thought, that's what pregnant people do.

So I always say, go to either, go and see a pre and postnatal specialist trainer one-on-one, even just for one session, just to ask all your questions.

Do a sample session, and then you can maybe go and replicate that in the gym.

Or go to a group class and just go a bit early, grab the instructor and just say, listen, I have no idea what I'm doing.

And they'll just keep a special eye on you.

And go with a friend maybe, or, but don't do nothing.

If you're able to, this is a good time to start to look after your body.

Because like we said, when you're a mum, the baby's not going to be like, oh, my mum doesn't exercise, so I'm not going to ask her to lift me up.

So yeah, they're going to be like, hello, I need you to carry me everywhere.

So you don't get that same like treatment post-ethyl.

So you should start to prepare yourself.

It doesn't mean that, right, let's go in and lift loads and loads of weights, but maybe some body weight work and yoga, Pilates, swimming, whatever works for you, like you said.

But that old myth of, oh, I can't do anything I didn't do before, it does not mean that.

It just means that if you've never run before, definitely running is not the time, pregnancy is not the time to start running.

But if you want to learn how to do something, just start kindly to your body, and just start at the beginning rather than trying to beat scores, and you know what I mean.

Which is why classes and a one-to-one is really good, because then even in classes, they offer variations.

So basic, do this, into your intermediate, or if you want to push yourself a little bit, they offer the levels and the progressions or regressions, which is really good.

So I would definitely recommend doing that.

Yeah, just, also you will be sore.

If you've never done it before and you go straight into a weights class, you're going to be so sore that you probably never want to go back again.

So just, yeah, ease yourself in, but definitely can.

And also you probably feel quite good for it.

Yeah, pregnancy is a great time.

I think there's evidence to show that women are more likely to take up like a healthy lifestyle change in pregnancy, and then hopefully we'll then stay with them.

So it's really important, you know, you're then setting an example for your children, and if you're a healthy mother, and then your children are more likely to be healthy.

We're gonna be breeding a whole age of toddlers who are like squatting around the house, lunging everywhere, because they see their mums do, which is so good.

You get taught by examples.

Yeah, definitely.

Fantastic.

So I suppose another benefit of exercising in pregnancy, which we've kind of touched on already, but I just want to chat a little bit about how it impacts the birth itself.

So is there anything that you see for women that exercise a lot, that their benefits that they get for the birth itself, or things that they should be maybe more aware of when it comes to the birth itself, that you see when you're supporting women in labor?

There's definitely some research out there, not in this country, but I think it was in Europe and in America that shows women who have exercised in pregnancy do have a shorter labor.

There's no evidence at the moment in this country, no studies that we can lean on for that, but in other countries, it has been done.

They did a trial and I think it was shown it shortened labor time by like 54 minutes.

So I mean, if that's not a benefit, I mean, it's not in this country, we don't know the background of the study, but there definitely is pros to doing it.

I think we just have to be aware, often women who exercise have quite a tight pelvic floor muscle and all of us, whether you're pregnant or not, are not very good at relaxing our pelvic floor.

We always got taught, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, squeeze and we forgot to kind of do the relaxing bit in between.

Charlie and I always talk about it like a bicep, if you're doing like a bicep curl, which is basically bringing your kind of, your wrist up to your shoulder.

If you're literally squeeze, squeeze, squeeze the whole time, actually that muscle is going to get really tired and it's just going to be really tight.

You need to do that tight and weak, which is the worst combination.

So we always try and focus, especially in the third trimester, when we're doing exercises, we do do some lifting of the pelvic floor, obviously because the weight of the baby is pushing on that pelvic floor kind of hammock.

But we also say, and now we're going to completely relax.

Yeah.

And it's hard to do.

Yeah, I find that the hardest.

Yeah.

Even I've really struggled without kind of pushing outwards on my pelvic floor.

It's hard to know whether you're doing it or not.

So we always say, make sure you do that because otherwise, if you're trying to push a baby through a tight pelvic floor, I'm not going to say you're definitely going to have issues, but if you can't relax everything, and birth, whilst sometimes it can, there's a lot of tension, lots of muscles going on, birth is, you should be relaxed at birth, and your muscles should be relaxed to allow everything to develop and progress.

So that's what some things we have to be mindful of.

So whilst exercise has its benefits, sometimes it can also help.

I wonder whether you, because it's sort of interesting hearing your side of things.

Because obviously I see the client and then I pass them on to you.

But one of my clients said that it was very helpful for us to work sort of like an exercise 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off, these kind of things, because it prepared her for labour.

Because in that on time, it's all go, everything go, go, go.

And then in the off time, you can catch your breath, you can move position.

And she said she felt like she was really ready for that from the way that exercise had taught her to sort of use that rest time really wisely and then go again.

And I think that's something that people don't tell you about labour is that in the gaps in between, you feel completely comfortable.

Like as comfortable as you feel right now, that is how comfortable you feel in the gaps.

And when you think you hear stories, I was in labour for 24 hours, I was in labour for 48 hours.

In your head, you're like, oh my God, they were in pain for 24 hours.

And you're like, actually no, at the beginning of labour, the gaps in between are quite big and the contractions themselves are reasonably short.

And even as labour intensifies, the gaps are getting shorter, but they're always longer than the contractions themselves and you feel completely at ease.

So then if you're sort of training your muscles and mainly your mind that a rest is coming in a minute, I can keep the work out because a rest is coming, they said that that really empowered them.

And the midwife said, did you exercise in your pregnancy?

And they very proudly said, yes, I did.

And then fed that back to me and I was so proud.

But because it was more the mental attitude rather than how strong they physically were.

Because I think, like you said, birth is happening anyway, sorry, the labour's happening anyway, and you almost just have to let your body facilitate it.

It's much easier said than done, I'm sure.

You've got to keep yourself over to it.

But the mental strength is a huge aspect.

That's a lot to be said for mental strength.

And believing in your body, if you've done exercise all through your pregnancy, you've got that buzz, haven't you?

You're like, my body's amazing, I'm growing a human, I'm exercising.

And you've got a belief in your ability.

And I think that's really important when it comes to birth.

And you feel strong.

You feel strong physically, but you're also strong-minded.

And you've-

You know you can do it.

Yeah, and I think that's really important.

But also breathing as well.

We do a lot of breathing exercise when we do exercise.

So even just breathing through contractions and that kind of thing, and knowing when it gets that really intense bit, you just breathe through and then hopefully it's gonna come back down.

And so I think people say if they exercise, they've got more of an awareness of their body, what their body can do, and also how to control their breath and how to breathe through intense, intense.

And if that's not something to convince you to exercise, I don't know what it is.

The thought of labor is terrifying anyway.

So if someone says to me that exercising in the right way is gonna help me prepare myself for that, then I don't know, it's a no-brainer for me.

Yeah, and particularly when you're in pregnancy and actually with exercise, you can go, right, I'm done now, I'm gonna stop.

Time to eat dinner.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

But that's actually exactly what you were saying, Charlie, is something that a lot of clients that I work with, I obviously don't teach them exercise, but obviously some of the clients I work with do do a lot of exercise.

And there's a lot, we always say there's a lot of parallels between mentally training your body exercise-wise and then going through labor.

That's why I say that we are part PT, part therapist, because obviously we're not qualified therapists, but we take these women through a lot of emotions.

And when we're training them, weirdly I think they feel quite vulnerable and that they can let all their emotions out with us.

And there's lots of tears and sometimes they're good tears, sometimes they're just exhausted, all these things.

And I'm not there going, keep squatting when they're crying.

Often we just, we have a little chat and we get them through it and everything.

And they come together.

Like in any exercise, you've got that mental aspect, whether it's like overcoming a mental block.

I've had gymnastics training sessions where last week I did exactly what I was meant to do.

Then the next week I'm doing supposedly that same session, yet something in my head is blocking me from doing it.

And I spend half an hour trying to psych myself up for it.

And I think it's the same.

You can get to a stage where you don't trust your body.

Stuff is changing.

You don't feel like your body's yourself, your own anymore.

And I think they have to come together.

You can't just blindly go into labour.

You can't blindly go into your exercise sessions.

I think they come together.

It's almost more important to the mental preparation.

I don't know, it's actually that again.

I don't know if you find that valuable.

Most women in labour reach a point, whether it's the transition period or often kind of before, where they just reach a point where they just go, I just can't, I just need a break.

I just need to, and it's that mental preparation that's really difficult.

It's like hitting the wall.

If you're running a marathon or whatever, or exercising, you hit the wall and you're like, I just can't do it anymore.

And you have to be able to overcome that.

Obviously in birth, you'll hopefully have a good midwife or birth partner to help you overcome that wall.

But it kind of has to come from within though, a lot of the time, and you have to believe in yourself and with some help, then you can get through it and then-

Well, it's almost like I can't do it anymore.

Well, it's not, we can't just stop.

It has to happen.

They always say that, oh, I'm just gonna go home.

And I'm like, okay then, you can go home.

And then they try and get off the bed and they can't or something and they're like, I can't go home.

But yeah, it's that transition phase where you're literally just like, make it stop, please.

But then a lot of women say that they are so proud of themselves after birth and they feel so strong and empowered.

And then after that, nothing feels challenging because they've just watched themselves go through this amazing transformation, giving birth to their child.

So I think there's, I'm all weirdly looking forward to it to the end of it.

I'm like, I want, because I'm the kind of person to push my body, I quite like this challenge of like, oh my goodness, I wanna see how I cope.

And yeah, I know it's not gonna be anything easy, but I like the fact that you can feel so empowered by something that's just naturally happening.

And that's it.

That's the thing that I think very little antenatal preparation kind of focuses on the hardest part of labor is what goes on inside your head.

Like what goes on inside your body is gonna happen.

Yeah, whether you want it to or not.

And the thing that makes labor difficult is what your head is saying to you.

And that does impact the actual physiology of that.

And that's what, with hypnobirthing, that's exactly what I set out to kind of support women to have tools to kind of help them through that.

But it sounds like the kind of, the thing that you would do with exercises kind of totally.

Yeah, and I probably think a mixture of it all is the perfect balance.

Yeah.

Because, you know, I have clients who are the calmest women and they train really well, they breathe well, they do yoga, everything they're supposed to do, and then they end up having an emergency C-section because you can't predict what's gonna happen.

Therefore, it's almost like the Cross Fit Games.

You have to be prepared for everything.

So you don't know till the day what workout they're gonna give you at the Cross Fit Games.

So you need to be prepared for strength, for fitness, for handstands.

I don't think Cross Fit, relaxation.

I was thinking more labor then.

But yeah, you need to be prepared for whatever comes your way.

And it might be completely not in your birth plan and all these kinds of things.

And so I think that is hard.

It's hard to let go and succumb to what we'll be.

I think for me, I'm like, I'm a bit of a control freak in terms of that kind of thing.

So that will probably be the hardest thing for me, just letting go, which is why I'm trying not to really create an ideal birth in my head, because I don't want to be letting myself down in inverted commas.

And I think a lot of women feel that.

I think a lot of women have an idea of what they want it to be, but I would say rather than having a-

Exactly, I think rather than having a birth plan, I know you probably say this as well, Megan, like have birth preferences and have if A happens, then I would like so and so and so.

If B happens, I'd like this, if C, and you've got like a whole alphabet of preferences and you can pull them whenever at your disposal.

Yeah, I think that's exactly the right way to be about it.

Because if you have like, especially if it's your first birth, you have just no idea what your body's gonna do.

So rather than saying like, A, B and C is my only way I'm gonna be happy, I just think as long as I'm okay and the baby's okay, I'll just listen to the doctors.

Like I'm not qualified.

I'll listen to the midwives and doctors and just do what they say.

Yeah, and I think there is like, as we were saying with the kind of mental aspect, there is stuff that you can do to support the physiology of birth.

But I totally agree in that if something comes up that means you end up making a decision that kind of is a little way away from what you initially wanted.

That doesn't mean you can't still have like a really amazing-

And anyway, even if you end up having to have an emergency C-section and you're so annoyed because you've been training loads and you're fit and strong, that's gonna help you with the recovery.

So actually, it's not gone to waste.

It will never have gone to waste.

But you just have to just let yourself be okay with that change of plan.

Yeah, there's a lot to be said for people who exercise in pregnancy, then definitely more likely to have a quicker and more efficient kind of recovery.

I tell you actually, on that note, exercise and recovery, I've noticed a difference over the years with the clients of mine who do Pilates.

Really?

Yeah, and actually the way that in Pilates, you work with your breath a lot and it's slow.

I did a Pilates session last week, and you can probably tell I'm not the kind of Pilates gal.

And when I left it, I thought, oh, I feel really nice.

I wouldn't really count it as like a workout, but I feel really good.

And the next day I was a little bit sore in muscles and I felt so relaxed and I was breathing correctly and everything.

But the clients who do that throughout pregnancy and then immediately, not immediately afterwards, but the first sort of thing they go back to, their recovery is always quicker for me and for my client base anyway, because they are building the foundations before they start hammering the outside muscles.

So.

We always say that, don't we?

You need to repair from the inside out.

Yes.

Whereas people just want those six pack abs or some people do.

I know, but it's so hard.

But you need to build up all those other layers before you get to that bit.

Because those first exercises are very boring and you almost can't feel yourself doing them.

In fact, in this Pilates lesson, she was trying to get me to work less.

So when she was saying, okay, contract your core, she was like, whoa, not all of the core.

Like, I only know how to turn it all on or all off.

And then she said, I want you to contract 20% of your muscle.

And so I did what I thought was 20%.

She's like, oh, that's about 500%.

And then I did what I thought was nothing.

And she's like, there we go, there we go, you've got it.

And I was like, oh my God, I barely moved.

So it's one of those things to learn to do less is actually very difficult.

But using your breath to connect with different muscles is amazing.

And so if you can be patient enough to do that to start with and learn it through your pregnancy, it's gonna set you up so well.

So the more and more I see people doing that, the more I recommend it.

Yeah.

And so moving on then, I guess, to the kind of the postnatal period, what in terms of women that want to get back to exercise or anybody really, how do you know when is the right time to start again?

What should you be kind of making sure is checked, things like that?

Yeah, so I think from the healthcare side of things, we say until you've had your six-week check from the GP, then you shouldn't be doing any exercise.

But now knowing what I do know about exercise and postnatal recovery, then I probably wouldn't give out that blanket advice.

But a lot of women will be asked to book an appointment with their GP around six to eight weeks, and they will have some sort of check.

It's different all around the country.

It's different depending on how good your GP is or not, or how much knowledge did they have.

And you might have your blood pressure checked.

You might just be asked about your mental health.

You might not.

You might have your stitches checked.

You might have to ask to have them checked if you want them.

If you had a C-section, then they might have a look at the scar, and they might recommend you kind of recover for a little bit longer if you did have a C-section.

So that's the blanket advice we give, you know, as our midwife discharging someone's on the hospital.

But you know what I feel like we shouldn't bash GPs really, because they don't have the time to check it all.

They have those 10-minute slots and-

And they don't have the training either.

Exactly.

You know, it's nothing bad on them.

It's the system that we're failing, failing, you know, all these healthcare providers.

Well, it sounds like even as a midwife, a lot of your knowledge has come from the two side of things anyway.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

So, and then usually people will then, if they want to exercise, they'll ask the GP at that appointment.

So am I good to exercise now?

And then they'll say yes or no.

And then-

Without knowing any history of what kind of exercise you mean.

And so this is where Charlie and I struggle a little bit because then, especially people who have an exercise before or have gone like hardcore and done burpees three times a week, even pregnancy, they go back and do that straight away because the GP said that it was okay.

So we always recommend just take it really, really easy.

And actually in those first six weeks, you can do stuff.

You can't like, there's nothing to be said for, you know, going for a walk or starting to do some kind of gentle core engagement, some pelvic floor work.

Yeah, it doesn't mean lie on the sofa for six weeks, by all means, lie on the sofa, like rest and recover and let everybody around you help you.

But if you've exercised all the way through your pregnancy, taking a month and a half to two months off everything is actually gonna cause you loads of discomfort.

Your back could start seizing up a little bit.

Like it's not the time to do absolutely nothing.

Obviously at the very beginning, make sure you're really resting and rehydrating and all these things.

But walking is your first port of call basically.

And if walking feels fine, you can move on to a couple of breathing exercises whilst lying down to basically reconnect your brain to your core and your pelvic floor.

Because often I have women who they're going, okay, I'm contracting my core and I've got my hand in their tummy.

I'm like, nothing is happening.

But that's normal.

It's because you're just having to really set up that connection.

So there are certain things you can start doing, but they're very, very low intensity.

There's zero impact, all these kinds of things.

And then I would really recommend, or we usually recommend, trying to see a women's health physio, whether that is on the NHS or a private appointment.

I think on the NHS, you're more likely to get an appointment quickly if you've had an issue.

Yes.

So if you've had a prolapse or...

Yeah, I think so.

So it could be a long waiting list, in which case it's worth checking out on the Mummy MOT website, who is qualified near you.

So you can find some, because obviously you don't want to be travelling miles to see them.

Yeah, and on the squeezy app.

Yes, exactly.

And basically in that appointment, it's a lot more thorough and it's a physical appointment.

So they'll often, with your consent, obviously do an internal examination of your pelvic floor, which gives them so much more feedback than any of us could give you.

Because we can't tell whether you're doing it correctly or anything.

So that's the first one.

Then second one, they will either feel your abdominals and see how well they're coming together and everything, or ultrasound them, which is so interesting.

And I've had that done just to see how it is.

And there's different layers of the core you can see coming together and how they're working because people are very scared of this diastasis of how wide apart your abdominals are after birth.

Now, if you fill your abs after birth, every single person will have a gap.

It's just stretched all that way.

Yeah, so don't, I mean, I wouldn't even bother checking straight after birth because you'll just freak yourself out.

But they'll come back together a certain amount naturally.

And then after that, what we're actually looking for, what the physio is looking for, is the tension underneath the core.

So you could have a two-finger gap in between your abdominals, but it could be a functional gap.

So underneath, all the layers of core are coming up and you can maintain a good amount of tension and everything like that.

You've got a good tone underneath that.

Yeah, so it's hard to feel it for yourself.

So you could completely panic yourself by pulling your fingers in between your stomach muscles and just think, oh my God.

But that's where the physio comes in really handy because then what she can do, or he, is tell you specifically for you, I would go back to exercise, but I would avoid A, B and C and I would start to do X, Y and Z.

And so then you know for you, because we often get messages on Instagram, is this safe if I've got a diastasis?

And it's like, well, I don't really know what your one is like.

So I have to give very blanket advice on that.

And it probably would stop some people doing the exercises because they think, oh, I'm not sure.

So those physio appointments, whilst they can be expensive if they're private, I always say to women that, I don't know, if you can figure out a way of affording it, it's one of the best appointments you can have.

Even if you just manage one appointment.

Oh yeah, they give you the advice and off you go and you do the homework yourself.

You have to do the homework.

I think physios must get so frustrated because people will just go, oh, I didn't do the homework, but I still haven't got it fixed.

So go along, and the best case scenario is that they say, you know what, you're actually fine and you can sleep easy knowing that your exercise is gonna be safe.

And what you don't wanna do is not go to this appointment, go along to a workout class, end up doing more damage, having a, getting a hernia and then having to have a different surgery.

So you've now got a C-section recovery and a hernia recovery.

So just preempt that.

So those first six weeks, just start recovering.

Like give yourself so much leeway in terms of activity because you know, every day is different.

You're learning how to be a mom and all these things.

And then after that, just start reconnecting, breathing, breathing out, engaging your core a little bit, but you know, realise it takes some time.

And then once you've seen the doctor, if it wasn't very thorough, book in to see that physio and go from there.

So just don't jump in from the deep end and also don't copy your friends.

Exactly.

Even your sister might have recovered differently from you.

Or even if you think you're really fit or you have been fit before.

But one benefit of seeing a women's health physio is then they will probably produce a report for you.

And whether you just take that away and you work on it yourself, or what we then like is for women to bring the report to us, or we might even have a good relationship with the women's health physio.

So then it's a bit of like a collaborative approach.

So then we'll kind of discuss between the personal trainer and the women's health physio and we'll work together.

And then they give us a better understanding of what's going on.

We give them a better understanding of what exercises we're doing to help this issue.

And it is definitely a really good approach.

You obviously are very different because you're a midwife too, but there's no way that I'm sticking my hands up to someone in the PT session.

So that's where I'm like, okay, the line is being drawn.

I think you've switched to the physio.

But we can check the abdominal gap with our fingers, but basically that's as far as we can see.

So I don't know, you'll probably have women asking you.

I don't think I would be qualified to do that.

But that's where you need the physio to give you that deeper layer of understanding.

And it's understanding your body, you know?

I think it's fascinating.

Yeah, it's really important.

Yeah.

So the kind of the final question then that I, now I don't know if I pre-prepare you on this or not.

But the final question that I ask everybody at the end of our podcast is, if you could gift either a pregnant or a birthing woman or a person who's a woman, one thing, what would it be?

You did actually prep us and I didn't think about it.

But I'm thinking now, it doesn't have to be a thing, does it?

It could be a mental thing.

So I think from the last sort of few months of me being pregnant, it's become more apparent that this is what's most important, is to not compare in any part, pregnancy, birth, motherhood.

You're just not the same as anyone else.

Plus, don't compare to your previous self.

So just take day by day.

And I look at other people at the same week as me and I think, well, your bum is bigger than me, or you're feeling kicks and I'm not.

It's impossible to say just compare.

Yeah, sure, I won't compare.

But if you're comparing, just always bring it back to everybody's different.

Everybody's baby's different, everybody's body's different, and everyone's birth is different.

Every pregnancy is different as well.

Yes, so don't compare to your previous pregnancy.

So that would be my top tip.

And you know what?

I'm still trying to take on my own advice, but don't compare to anyone or any time basically.

I think mine would probably be obviously coming from a midwife point of view would be belief.

Like I would give someone belief and reassurance.

Because I think we have like overcomplicated births sometimes and people have lost their belief in their bodies that birth is a normal, natural, physiological event that will happen whether you want it to or not.

If you were left unattended, your baby will come out.

You know, in most cases.

So I think I would just give someone reassurance and a bit of that kind of like super power-esque.

You know, just like.

I wish it was a real thing.

You know, like you're amazing.

You can do this, you know, people have been doing this for years and years and years.

And you're amazing and you can do this.

Yeah, that's a really nice note to finish off.

So thanks so much for joining me.

Hopefully that's given people like an absolute tonne of information.

I hope, we still just keep chatting.

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode.

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